Aligned & Authentic Email Automations with Bev Feldman

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Meg Brunson

Hey. Hey. FamilyPreneurs, I am so excited to have you joining us again today. Now, if you love your business but hate dealing with email marketing, that is where today's guest Bev Feldman from Your Personal Tech Fairy comes in. Bev helps service based solopreneurs build seamless automations on ConvertKit so that you can save time, have the energy to help your clients, and increase opportunities to earn money from your business without using icky feeling marketing techniques. Bev loves geeking out on technology and getting online platforms to fit together like a puzzle so that you can nurture relationships through email while you focus your time and energy on the parts of business that light you up. I love it so much, and I'm so excited to have you with us here today. Bev.

Bev Feldmen

I am so excited to be here, Meg.

Meg Brunson

I want to start with a question, because you mentioned ConvertKit. So I know that's your platform of choice. As we're talking today. If you're not using ConvertKit, are you going to be able to benefit from this episode?

Bev Feldmen

Absolutely. So a lot of what I talk about can be applied to pretty much any email marketing platform, especially if they allow you to set up automations, which I would say most of them in some way or other do.

Meg Brunson

Sure. Now let's start with talking a little bit about ConvertKit. Why is that the platform that you chose?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. So it's funny because since I started this business and I really honed in on ConvertKit, I've been asked this a lot. And for the longest time, I actually didn't have a very good answer other than, well, it's the one I started using a few years ago after seeing a lot of other bloggers at the time talking about it, which is not necessarily the best reason to switch to any platform. But as I've spent a lot of time in it, I realized there's a lot of things I do really like about it. So for one, they evolve as a platform a lot. I think they really listen to their users and they've added so many new features over the years based on, from my understanding, what us creators, the people who use the platform want to see. So I love that. That has been a big thing. It integrates also really nicely with a lot of other platforms that many online entrepreneurs use. So, for example, if you are creating courses, you can easily integrate ConvertKit with a lot of the big platforms, such as Thinkific. I believe they integrate with Podia. Teachable. A lot of the more commonly used ones, and anything you can do to streamline that process and avoid having to use other platforms to connect the two will just make your life so much simpler.

Bev Feldmen

And then finally, I was listening to your episode about- on another podcast where you were talking about doing an audit of your tech, and I was like, all right, I'm going to dig into ConvertKit to see where they line up or if they line up with my values. And I was so relieved to see that they definitely put out a statement for Black Lives Matter and they give back as much as any of us who are white and try to be more mindful about this. I think from my perspective, they're taking a very, I appreciated that it's something that's on the radar and they're actively trying to work on. So that was another thing that just made me feel good. So that was more recent. It's not why I joined ConvertKit, but I was very relieved to see that.

Meg Brunson

Yes. And those are reasons why you stayed. Sometimes that's just the way it is. You stumble into something and you're using it because it's what you know, but then you stay because of those things. And anyone who is interested that episode you're talking about, that is the Money Marketing And Mission Show with Mia Francis-Poulin. And I believe it was episode number three where we talked about doing that audit, if anyone wants to listen to that as well. Thanks for bringing that up.

Bev Feldmen

Oh, of course. I just thought it was such a brilliant idea. And I was like, oh, I should check all the tech to make sure it lines up, not just with that value, but for me as someone who really cares about environmental sustainability, making sure that I'm using platforms that hopefully aren't doing. I mean, it's hard being in tech and obviously uses a lot of energy to run any of these platforms, but at least it gives me kind of a starting point to talk to the platforms to maybe at least get them thinking about these things.

Meg Brunson

Yeah. And with my tech audit, like the piece that if you're not familiar with it, basically I'm looking at where I'm already spending money in my business and determining if that aligns with my values. I might not be able to make million dollar contributions to causes and things like that. Right. Because I'm a little guy in the world, but because my money is going towards big companies to buy things that I need from my business if they're spending the money in a way that's aligned with my values, it's almost like I'm still giving back in that way.

Bev Feldmen

Oh, I 100% agree. And as a business owner as a small business owner and I've been a small business owner for many years, I believe it's so important that we also support not only other small business owners, but ones that align with their values. And obviously, it can be really tricky if you realize what you're using does not. And then you have to go through all the trouble not only finding a new platform, but switching things over. But at the end of the day, like you said, if you want to feel like you're contributing in a way that feels in alignment with your values, then it's probably worth it, even if it's just not that fun in the moment.

Meg Brunson

Oh, yeah. And we talked before this episode. I did that the platform I was using for all my things email, landing pages, courses, like all the things was not aligned. And I had to wait- kind of deal with it for a little bit until the right platform came around, which was FG Funnels. And then I moved everything. And it took a lot of time and a lot of energy, and things were a little wonky for a while. But I pay a lot of money monthly for those services, and I want to know that it's supporting the right things. All right. Well, let's shift, because I feel like we could talk about that stuff forever. But let's shift to talk about email. Can you break down, like, how email automation fits into our marketing strategy?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah, absolutely. So I think if you've been an online business enough or even just as a consumer, chances are you've seen an opt in form, sometimes called a lead magnet or freebie. There's all these different terms floating out there. So we all have ways or most of us have ways to capture people's email addresses. And there's a couple of things to think about. One, I believe that having an email list is super important because that is your information. So unlike social media, where I do think it's important to have an online presence in that way that you don't own that information. And unfortunately, a lot of these places can choose to just shut you down. So you want to make sure you have a way to reach out to your audience. So when it comes to automations, there's a couple of things you might not even think about this, but when someone signs up for your email list and they automatically get an email that either well, says, "Hi, thanks for signing up," or "here's the thing you signed up for." I mean, that's an automation right there. So most of us have done at least some kind of minimal automation when it comes to email marketing.

Bev Feldmen

But I like to take it a step further. So for me, one of the biggest things that I think is important is having some sort of welcome sequence or automated email sequence that goes out to new subscribers once they sign up for your list. And that's for a few reasons. One, if most of your people, like us, are parents with lots going on in our lives and things happen like pandemics and school shutdowns. So our lives are not always predictable. And you just want to know that no matter what you have going on in your life, that you are reaching out to people when they sign up for your list in a way that doesn't feel like you're manually doing it, but that's happening automatically. And it doesn't have to be in a way that feels like I think people hear email automations and they're like, oh, that doesn't feel right. That feels really inauthentic. But I like to look at it. You can set up your emails in a way that feels in alignment with how you want to run your business and how you want to show up in the world so you can send emails that are genuine and built from the perspective of wanting to create connection and even inviting people to respond to your emails.

Bev Feldmen

Now, obviously, if you choose to respond back to those emails, which I highly recommend you do as much as you can. Obviously, you can't automate that process, but it's a nice way to build up that connection. And then from a consumer or user perspective, it gives you the opportunity to decide for yourself. Is this a good fit? Because you're putting yourself out there a little more, letting them know who you are and people can decide for themselves? Oh, yeah, this person really resonates with me or yeah, they're sharing great info, but something about them just doesn't resonate with me. And that's fine, too. It's just an opportunity to build a connection a little bit more in a way, as much as you can through email.

Meg Brunson

Yeah. And I feel like I like that you touched on that you might turn people off, and that is okay because not everybody's going to be your people and you want an email list that's all excited about you. So if they're not your people, let them go and find who their people are.

Bev Feldmen

Exactly. And just like you might not be for everyone, you might have people who are interested in working with you that for whatever reason, aren't the right fit for you. And that's fine, too. Part of having our own businesses is that we should theoretically have the ability and flexibility to make these decisions that feel right to us.

Meg Brunson

Now, would you say that that's like the most important, like if we don't have automation set up, is that the first thing we should do, or is there like something else that's more important than that?

Bev Feldmen

That's a really great question. My suggestion would be, especially as you're getting things up and running to at the very least do that. I would suggest if you already have a bunch of programs or courses, any kind of digital something out there, it's always a good idea to have some sort of automation set up for that. And not just, "okay, here's that thing that you signed up for, bye." But obviously, you wouldn't say that in your email, but invite people, remind them. I mean, how many of us have purchased courses and then forgotten about it, or, oh, I purchased that course, and now I don't remember quite what it was called or who I purchased it from, and I don't have any way to find it. But if you get like a couple of reminder emails, not an annoying way, but like, oh, here's kind of tease out like, oh, this is what you'll learn in this lesson. And it's like, oh yeah, there's that thing I purchased that I was excited to do and then forgot about. It happens to all of us. We should never feel guilty about that because so many of us have that happen.  My suggestion would be at a minimum do welcome sequence if you have nothing else.

Bev Feldmen

But if you do have some programs, just kind of do a little audit to make sure to see what happens. Like, sign up for your course and see what happens because you may have forgotten what happens when people sign up.

Meg Brunson

And that's a good point, too. Like, sign up with your email and get the emails that you have scheduled for other people to get and then think about whether that's sufficient, right?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. But it's also a good opportunity to check to make sure things are working right. I was testing something out of my own account and then so I'm getting my welcome sequence, probably for the 7th time. I'm just using different email addresses and I'm like, why am I getting this at one in the morning? It doesn't make any sense. So it's a good reminder for me to check to make sure I have my settings correct. Because I shouldn't be getting it in the middle of the night.

Meg Brunson

Oh, that's a good point. And I don't feel like- and here's where I'm not an email pro. Right. But I just set mine to run all the time. Do you think that you should set it to only run during business hours?

Bev Feldmen

I think it really depends on your business. Quite honestly. I made the decision this a few months ago. I decided because I have a very extensive series of emails that goes out like I have at this point about four and a half months worth of scheduled emails. So whenever someone signs up for my list, they're going to get a bunch of emails over time. And I made the decision to turn them off on the weekends only because I'm in the business to business space and I'm like, well, as a business owner, I'm trying to move away from checking my business email on the weekend. And that's not to say there's anything wrong if you do, but I'm almost trying to preserve this sense of the importance of rest.

Bev Feldmen

And therefore, I'm like, I'm just going to not send emails on the weekends. But it's totally personal preference. I do want people in my space as much as possible, I think, to get the emails when they're working. But that's not to say that you can't. It really depends. And I think part of that is knowing your audience. I've seen, for example, people who are whose target audience are moms. Like, Saturday mornings might be an excellent time for them to get their emails because if you're taking your kids to sports practice, like, oh, now is a good time to read my email.

Meg Brunson

Would you test that out and track your open rates at different times during the week?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah, I mean, you certainly could. I have to say, I've never gone that indepth with my testing. Like, I do track my open and click through rates, but I'm mostly just then looking at like, okay, if I tweak this subject line or the copy in the body of the email, I like stats, but not so much to then start tweaking with the times.

Meg Brunson

Well, good to know. Good to know. There's strategies out there. Yeah. Now we talked a little bit about automations. Once they're on your list and they've gotten whether it's a single email welcome or a sequence of welcome emails, then what can we talk a little bit about how we keep that list active and engaged?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. Well, like I mentioned, there's a couple of ways you can go if you want to go the automated route. Meaning, you know, you want to email your list regularly, but you just don't have the time. You don't have the bandwidth to sit down every week and do a live newsletter. You can still do automated emails. So that's what I do. We hear this term evergreen. They're not time based emails. That's to say, most of the emails that go out to my list, it's just a series of emails that are applicable no matter what time of year it is. That being said, if there is something going on, like, I recently offered a workshop and so I did pause those automations for a few days so I could send out a live email, then turn those automations back on. And then I put within my email template so people could still see the information about my workshop, kind of below all the regularly scheduled emails that they get. I mean, that's another actually brings up a point that it's something you can do if you do want to go the more automated route, but, you know, you have something coming up or like, for me, if I'm on a podcast, I want to promote that podcast and not necessarily wait to create a new email in my automation, but I can almost put for lack of a better word, I create an ad for it. So it shows up at the bottom of all of my emails, regardless of what email they're getting.

Meg Brunson

Interesting. Is that something that ConvertKit allows you to do? So it's almost like you edit the footer...

Bev Feldmen

Yeah, exactly. ConvertKit definitely allows you to I'm sure other platforms do as well, that you can kind of edit what's at the bottom. Like, by default, you have your address and an unsubscribe button. Every platform will have that because I'm not a lawyer, I'm not like a law expert. But you do have to have that info there. Otherwise you're breaking the law. But you can add other info to the bottom if you wanted in addition to those two things.

Meg Brunson

Interesting. I love that. Now, I'm curious. So you say you automate these emails. How does writing the emails work if they are automated and evergreen? And are you just constantly adding to that funnel?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. So basically, I love that question. So the way I do it is I try to batch write a bunch of emails. So I'm like, all right, this week I'm going to focus on just getting another month's worth of emails out. And a month's worth of emails can look different to different people. That could be if you want your emails to go every other week, that's two emails that you just didn't write. And then, you know, you have to find time maybe once a month to do that. So, yeah, I just kind of go through, I have a week or two where, sprinkled in with all the other work I have to do. I'll sit down for an hour or two. I'm like, all right, I'm going to bang out a couple more emails. Things are always changing. I do like to add in some podcast interviews into some of those automated emails. And then as I learn new things, I add in more tips. That's the process. I do it.

Meg Brunson

I guess I'm wondering. So you said that right now your welcome sequence is like a four month sequence.

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. So I have my welcome sequence and then it kind of then feeds into the welcome emails are a little more spaced closely. So maybe they're every other day over a span of a couple of weeks and then they come to my more long term nurture sequence and then they're like twice a week.

Meg Brunson

Okay. Interesting. I just love hearing how other people are leveraging that platform. Now, what if you are a person that has a list and maybe you were good at emailing them before? Maybe not. But now you're like, oh, shoot, I should probably do something with this list. Do you have any tips for like re engaging a list that may have kind of gone flat because you haven't emailed them in a few weeks, or months, or years?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. I mean, you can kind of go one of two ways. You can say, hey, it's been a while. You can kind of talk about the elephant in the room. And if you want, you can explain why or you cannot. It's totally up to you. Or you can also just email them again, start emailing them and not say it - it's totally. I think it's partially it depends on what your audience is I would say. I think especially if you're kind of more in the B-to-C, the business to consumer space, it might make more sense to share maybe why in a way that feels comfortable to you. And if you're in the B-to-B space, it might not make as much sense to do that. But again, it depends on your business and who you're serving. And I think we've all been there where we've gotten an email out of the blue from someone we may have even forgotten about. And sometimes you go either, oh, yeah, I remember that person. I'm excited to see them again. Or who the heck is this? I don't remember signing up for your list. I'm going to unsubscribe. And that's fine, too, because I do think it is important to make sure our lists are clean.

Bev Feldmen

And while I personally think there's value in everyone on your list, whether or not they ever buy from you or hire you, I do also, at the same time, believe it's really important to keep our list clean because we don't want people on our list who just never engage at all with our emails because that just ends up harming our own deliverability of our emails. And we do want to make sure the people who do want to hear from us get those emails.

Meg Brunson

And when you say clean, you mean the people on your list are actually opening your emails, right?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. So I just did this workshop, but it's called a Cold Subscriber reengagement campaign, which to me just sounds kind of like the Cold Subscriber. These are people. They're not like cold. They're just for whatever reason, they're not engaging. So most email marketing platforms give you the ability to identify what they call cold subscribers. So they may define it slightly differently, but it's just people who haven't opened your emails in a certain span of time. And you can I mean, some people just choose to flat out remove those people. I personally like to send a more targeted email to those people and say, hey, I noticed it's been a while. And because I talk about email marketing and automation, I also call it out for what it is I'm like, "just so you know, you're getting a Cold Subscriber reengagement email." And then I kind of mock the term and I explain why I'm doing it. And then I offer up if you'd like to stay on here's some information, like here's two or three links that might be of interest or helps you if you're interested. If you click on one of them, you'll stay on my list if you've decided, you know, I don't want to.

Bev Feldmen

It's not a good fit. I don't want to hear from you anymore, Bev, you can hit unsubscribe. And that's totally cool. So I like to go more that route in a way that feels good to you in terms of how you want to approach it. Like you want to just be like one email. Hey, it's been a while. Got to click on a link if you want to stay here or spy, or if you want to make it more of a conversation.

Meg Brunson

Sure. And the benefits I feel like the one benefit to cleaning your list is if you lose some subscribers, you can potentially save yourself some money, right? When it comes to a lot of these platforms, you pay per subscriber. Kind of. Right? Like, they're like tiers, but the more subscribers you have, the more you're paying. So if you ensure that they're only the most relevant subscribers, you could be saving yourself money.

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. And I've definitely done that when I've noticed, like, oh, I'm hitting that threshold where I'm getting to the next tier. That is a really good time to clean up my list. And so you can go either way. You can choose to wait until you're about to hit that next payment tier. Or you can just do it on a calendar regularly because there's the way you're hit monetarily if you have people who aren't opening your emails. But then you also have, like, especially if you're a metrics person, like how it impacts how many people open and how many people click on your emails.

Meg Brunson

And I don't know all the like- I get a little confused with email deliverability, but I think that that impacts it too. Right. Like, if your emails from your email address are bouncing and not being opened, someone out there in the email world will flag that your emails aren't good, right?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. That's how I understand it. And I know that a lot of platforms talk about it from my understanding. And I say this as someone who doesn't know how Gmail and Outlook and all of them run in the back- how they decide on things. But from my understanding is if you have a bunch of people with Gmail addresses and like 80% of them aren't opening it, Gmail is going to say, oh, this person must be spam. And then you could end up in the spam folder of people who do want to read your email.

Meg Brunson

Right. So another reason why cleaning your list is a good business decision.

Bev Feldmen

Oh, yeah, exactly.

Meg Brunson

And I know I have a client who uses ConvertKit. So I know, like, for most, like, if you're already on a platform, you could Google, like "ConvertKit cleaning list," and they'll be like a step by step. And if you're using something else "Active Campaign, clean list" and look for something in their help documents, and they typically will just walk you through that process. If anybody has questions on that.

Bev Feldmen

Yeah.

Meg Brunson

Now for the super newbies who maybe are like, oh, shoot, I need to use something other than Gmail to email my list. What are your recommendations? I know you love ConvertKit, so feel free. We touched a little bit on why you stayed with ConvertKit, but what are some things that people should look for in a platform if they're starting from scratch?

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. So for one thing, I would look to see what other platforms you're currently using because you want to choose a platform that's going to integrate easily with as many of those other things as possible. So, for example, certain schedulers integrate better with certain email marketing platforms. So if you have a scheduler you love and you don't want to change it and you want to simplify it as much as possible, then check to see which email marketing platforms integrates natively with it, meaning you don't need to use another platform such as Zapier to have to connect the two. So that would be my biggest thing. And then it can be difficult at the beginning to know if later on down the line you're going to want to set up automations. But if you are like, you know what, I'm just never going to do that. I like sitting down on my computer once a week to write a live email to everyone on my list, then you don't necessarily need as a robust platform as ConvertKit. Like, there's some really great platforms that allow you to do really beautiful emails. I know Flodesk is a very popular one.

Bev Feldmen

If aesthetics are like your thing and you just want to do live. I don't know enough about Flodesk, but what I do know is they make- they have very beautiful emails. So that's the most important thing to me, then that can help you figure out your platform as well.

Meg Brunson

So it's what's really important to you.

Bev Feldmen

Yeah. I mean, that's part of it. Yeah. What's important to you, if you're trying to make sure they line up with your values, then check out what their values are. Also, it is important, especially at the beginning, you might want to consider cost. But in the long run, especially when you're starting out and your list is small, your email marketing platform is actually not going to- it's gonna be such a small percentage of your overall cost of running your business. It's almost- not that it's not worth it because every Penny counts, especially at the beginning. But that's not going to be the thing that makes or breaks your business in terms of cost.

Meg Brunson

Right. They're all very similar. Like all of them, they start at similar rates. I feel like it's the bells and whistles that differs the most. But there is that element like, you've got to weigh. I think with any platform, you have to weigh where you want to be in the next one to five years, because moving things over is a lot of work. So I think there is that element of, for me, having done all that, I'd rather make an investment, a reasonable investment. I'm not talking huge here, but knowing that it'll give me room to grow into.

Bev Feldmen

Exactly. And you bring up the point, is this a platform I can grow into, or is it really limited that it serves my purposes right now but might not in a few years as my business grows.

Meg Brunson

And I feel like I'm going to call it out. Mailchimp is like what everybody in air quotes uses in the beginning. And I know that they have some bells and whistles, but ultimately everyone leaves to go to a different platform because reasons, because there are different automations, Different integrations, more bells and whistles with Active Campaign or ConvertKit or FG Funnels or whatever the case may be. So not falling into that trap of MailChimp and Mailerlite are really good for beginners, but they're not necessarily the platforms that are going to grow with you. Sorry, MailChimp and Mailerlite, they're not going to be sponsoring this episode. All right, well, first of all, I know you have a freebie that you've put together for us, right?

Bev Feldmen

I do, although it's funny because it will still be there. But I am in the process of changing it. But I do have a free guide that kind of walks you through how to ensure that your opt in is set up. Well, it is very ConvertKit specific, but a lot of the themes of it, the ideas around it can be applied to other email marketing platforms. So it's called the ConvertKit Opt In optimizer.

Meg Brunson

So if you're using ConvertKit or you're thinking about using ConvertKit, you 100% want to get this opt in. And if you're not using ConvertKit, you still probably want to just grab it because it's free, right? Why not go through it? I'm sure a lot of the themes of making sure- are going to translate to other platforms, just some of the buttons might be different, but it's still the same general premise.

Bev Feldmen

Exactly. There are things that are pretty common, like you said, across platforms. So while the tech part of it won't match up, It is something that you may be doing that you're like, oh, shoot, I want to change that.

Meg Brunson

And where can our viewers and listeners connect with you? What are the best places on the internet?

Bev Feldmen

Yes. So you can find me on my website, which is YourPersonalTechFairy.com and in terms of social media, I'm also fairly active on Instagram, which is @your.PersonalTechFairy. And I love talking to people in the DMs and not- in a non salesy, like let's get to know each other way. I'm not going to push a sale on you.

Meg Brunson

Awesome. Well, I'll put those links all in the show notes as well. The link for the opt in too will be in the show notes. And I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to be here with us today. I love connecting with other like-minded, busy, overwhelmed, parent entrepreneurs and you fit that box. We've had a lot of great conversations around that, so I encourage everyone listening to connect with Bev and get your email under control.

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